[READY] [GF: Phase 1] Thales

Project Name: Thales

Author Name: @padzank | Thales

Number of OP tokens requested: 2,000,000

L2 Recipient Address: 0x489863b61C625a15C74FB4C21486baCb4A3937AB

Relevant Usage Metrics: >1000 unique traders across all products, >200 txns per day, 4 major products live on Optimism mainnet

Optimism alignment (up to 200 word explanation):

With Phase 0 allocations being around on-chain metrics such as TVL and transactions-per-day count, Thales was eligible for 900,000 OP tokens distribution. With this subsequent Phase 1 proposal, Thales will request additional distribution of OP tokens to sufficiently bootstrap the usage of all relevant Thales products on the Optimism network that also have a large potential in increasing the overall adoption of the Optimism network. For example, one major product of Thales is going live on mainnet in the upcoming weeks from writing this proposal: Thales and Chainlink will bring world’s first on-chain Sports Markets AMM exclusively to the Optimism network called The Overtime Markets.

Thales was one of the first whitelisted protocols to launch on Optimism mainnet. All main protocol token operations and products are done exclusively on Optimism. THALES token is the first token to support Tipbot.cc integration with Optimism and deposits/withdrawals from a CEX (MEXC) directly to Optimism.

Thales is also delivering a major effort towards making the onboarding process to Thales, and hence the Optimism network, as frictionless as possible for Thales dapp users. In the upcoming days, Thales dapp is integrating a direct fiat onramp to Optimism, bridge+swap aggregator and cex-to-Optimism solution. Thales users will be able to onboard without ever leaving the dapp, making a comfortable environment for easy onboarding to Optimism.

Thales architecture offers novel and unique cutting-edge products around price movement of crypto assets, price ranges of crypto assets, automated on-demand markets around Sports Events, permissionless prediction markets and sequential on-chain battle royale experience. While these products are exclusive to the Thales protocol because of its unique on-chain resolution architecture, that means they are also exclusive to the Optimism network as well. If users wish to use these products, they have to onboard the Optimism network first. Incentivising Thales product usage is in the mutual interest of both Thales and Optimism.

Proposal for token distribution (under 1000 words):

How will the OP tokens be distributed?

The distribution goal is to mainly incentivize the usage of Thales products through direct trading/participation incentives and trading competitions. Aim is to draw new attention to the Optimism network and the Thales products, as the products have a high potential of capturing and onboarding a wide demographic of users that are not exclusively crypto native from the start. Additional goal is to additionally incentivise THALES/ETH liquidity provision and to have a healthy fund for grants towards builders building on top of the Thales protocol. We are positive that incentives are key towards getting users familiar with the simplicity of novel trading methods using Thales products, which are also primed to have successful user retention numbers after the direct incentives dry up.

How will this distribution incentivize usage and liquidity on Optimism?

Large part of distribution will be allocated throughout the Thales products as direct trading incentives in tandem with organised trading competitions. As incentives invite new users and participants to try out these products, subsequent results will be the increase of trading volume, TVL, transaction count and, most importantly, user retention.

The following are Thales products that are planned to receive participation/trading incentives:

  • Positional markets AMM - The flagship product of Thales. A novel and unique AMM-based trading framework allowing for on-demand Positional Markets trading around various Chainlink and TWAP oracle based assets.
  • Thales Royale - On-chain battle royale experience using Thales Market resolution mechanisms with evolving utility NFTs on Optimism as player profiles.
  • Exotic Parimutuel Markets - Optimistically created and resolvable Exotic Parimutuel Markets, allowing anyone to create a parimutuel market around any fathomable event.
  • Sport markets AMM - Upcoming decentralized and permissionless on-chain markets around Sport events. Sports data provided by Chainlink exclusively for Thales on Optimism network.
  • Ranged markets AMM - Upcoming AMM-based trading framework allowing for on-demand Ranged Markets, where anyone can position themselves on any specific price range of various Chainlink and TWAP oracle based assets.
  • Thales Referrals Program - On-chain incentivized user acquisition and onboarding tool. If someone uses your Referral Link to start trading on Thales, you as a referrer get a percentage from each trade, paid in sUSD directly. This way, everyone has a direct incentive to onboard as many new users to Thales as possible and benefit from their trading volume.

Another portion of the distribution will go towards incentivising THALES/ETH liquidity providers on the Optimism Network. These incentives will subsequently increase the TVL of THALES and ETH liquidity and they will also complement the increase in trading activity and txn count of the products through the reflexive mechanism of Gamified Staking rewards. Gamified Staking is a system that awards THALES token stakers with additional bonus rewards if the staker is also using Thales products up to a certain threshold. This specific system is designed to align THALES stakers with the usage of the products themselves, and vice versa.

The final portion of the distribution will go towards a Grant program that awards third-party builders on Thales. The protocol architecture is designed in such an elegant and novel way that there is an infinite amount of cool ideas and products possible on top of the Thales core architecture.

Why will the incentivized users and liquidity remain after incentives dry up?

As previously stated, The OP token incentives are just a slight nudge to gain the attention of new users, getting them to bridge over funds for the first time and to get them accustomed to using Thales products on a cheap, fast and reliable Layer 2 network that is Optimism. The goal is to get as many people as possible to try out Thales products. We are confident that the simplicity of Thales products is friendly for all kinds of users, fun and not possible on any other protocol because of the novel mechanics Thales introduced to the space. Users just need to get over the first onboarding step and do the first few trades/positions to get acquainted with the simplicity of mechanics and that is what the incentives are here for.

Incentives for providing liquidity and staking the THALES token on top, combined with all additional incentives that will be in place from other Optimism ecosystem projects, Thales will be contributing to not just long term user retention but also large scale liquidity retention.

Over what period of time will the tokens be distributed?

Tokens are planned to be distributed over a 12 months period of time from the moment of receiving them. This planned timeline has the potential to reassure the users of longevity of incentives and also give the protocol enough time to mature and transition to purely organic volume accrual and increase in user count.

<h2How much will your project match in co-incentives?

The THALES project will match the OP token incentives across all points of distribution with the continuation of in-house incentives that are already present. The quantity of matched THALES token rewards will be subject to adjustments during this time, from the Thales Council, depending on the initial data gathering of user participation.

8 Likes

This is an easy No for me.

Thales was eligible for 900,000 OP tokens distribution

Before submitting for a new proposal, show us how the existing fund was used.

1 Like

The existing 900,000 OP tokens are still to be distributed but you can see the detailed plan of distribution on our accepted Phase 0 proposal here: [GF: Phase 0 Proposal] Thales .

With being one of the earliest whitelisted projects from the Synthetix ecosystem that relies a lot and is greatly aligned with the Optimism network, we deem the amount requested to be reasonable considering the planned timeline of distribution and the number of live products planned for coverage from these tokens.

More detailed motivation and reasoning can be found in the proposal itself.

3 Likes

I think if you look at the products thales offers it makes a bit more sense. If the allocation is well managed and split between products it could draw in a large amount of users from other platforms.

4 Likes

Let me be clear as text does not translate feelings properly, I am not against Thales or any project for that matter. I want to support and see OP ecosystem grow.

But I also want to draw some boundaries, it does not matter if they have one product or 100, 900K token is a huge number and we still dont know how it will be used. I know the guidelines are there in Phase 0 proposal but I believe in result and data, actual on-chain activities.

I would not consider this proposal for Phase 1, I am more than willing to support this once their existing fund are distributed.
@MoneyManDoug @padzank

3 Likes

I just want to point out that it is too early to discuss this proposal, from my perspective (and health of governance priorities), I suggest focusing on experience based on phase 0 before further formalizing this proposal. I expect that a sufficient number of weeks will pass before we see this proposal ready. The discussion can continue, but then I will issue an opinion only later, if necessary.

5 Likes

I think it’s counterproductive to shut down Phase 1 proposals by default for the protocols that are Optimism-native (and therefore received Phase 0 allocation). It would make all of these discussions redundant for the next many months, as Phase 0 allocations haven’t even been distributed yet.

We also don’t want to reward any project that rushes to spend their Phase 0 allocation just so they can begin the Phase 1 dialogue faster.

Let’s evaluate the concrete proposal.

  • Is it a unique offering likely to draw in many new users to Optimism? Yes, on-chain sports markets are novel and noteworthy. Same goes for the other products listed.
  • Are the funds reasonably allocated over time and products? Yes, the distribution is to take place over a full year and encompassing a wide range of distinct products i.e. catering to a wide range of users.

= Yes from my side.

I suggest reviewers comment specifically on the proposal.
If a reviewer’s conclusion is to shut down the proposal because the early stage OP is in (i.e. Phase 0 distributions are yet to be distributed), that’s really a separate conversation affecting the entire ecosystem and therefore beyond the scope of Thales’ proposal.

7 Likes

I think quoting the first page of the ‘About Us’ tab on https://optimism.io is a good place to start a discussion here. And then I have 3 points that I believe should reinforce this as a no-brainer yes for Thales to be granted the tokens being discussed here.

"The Optimism Foundation is a nonprofit organization dedicated to growing the Optimism Collective.

Not only are we writing software that scales Ethereum technology, we are also scaling Ethereum values by creating the rails for highly impactful projects that don’t have a business model to succeed."

The single most important aspect of realizing this vision is getting tokens/economic value into the hands of the right people, so that results can be delivered. I love Optimism’s take here because it is essentially saying… we know we can’t do it all, so here is the platform…builders - go build - and we will make sure the dedicated ones can keep going financially. It’s very wise IMO.

Thales is a small protocol, OP native, and has shown tremendous responsiveness, drive and ambition to demonstrate all the things Optimism stands for.

I am naturally inclined to be 100% supportive of this request - and for anyone against it, also would remind you that there are larger protocols - Uniswap as 1 example, that didn’t even bother to write an initial proposal by the due date if I recall correctly. Not that this is a terrible offense by them in any way, and also not singling out Uni either - but more so attempting to clearly demonstrate where priorities are… and it is actions like this that are revealing without a doubt.

You want to incentivize growth? Tokens should be going to hungry protocols that have demonstrated a desire and capability of enabling growth on Optimism, as @padzank has shown here.

Also I think it is important to keep in mind there have not been any distributions yet - although they are coming (soon I believe/hope) - of Phase 0 grants and so if we go down this route, by opposing this, you are really saying all Phase 1 OP protocols are essentially irrelevant right now. I would take the opposing view considering Arbitrum is absorbing massive TVL as these words are being written…that now would be the exact time that any clearly dedicated and committed protocol should be awarded tokens to help them grow, whether it be Thales or another similar protocol.

All things considered, it hasn’t been smooth sailing for pretty much anyone since the Optimism launch by any means and I think we can all agree on that… I believe this proposal to be perfectly reasonable. I would also anticipate the Optimism Foundation to also respect and encourage more behavior like this demonstrated by Thales - it is one of the main reasons I became optimistic on Optimism in the first place: Thales, and so anything that would impede further growth seems counter-intuitive to me.

I’m completely in favor of this and again would even suggest some urgency be applied as well, due to the current state of markets. Great proposal, well written and Thales is certainly deserving of every bit of this in my opinion.

Weston Nelson :red_circle: :red_circle: :red_circle:

6 Likes

(post deleted by author)

Phase-0 $OP tokens have not yet been distributed to any project, how do you want them to show you how they’ve been used ?

3 Likes

Sounds good and makes sense to me, Thales keeps building lot of products on Optimism and bringing a different category of users directly to the protocol.

3 Likes

That is a good question, I need to check the exact date when the team will release the first batch token but I expect to by end of next month.

But from what I see, if we are even remotely willing to consider this, they are asking for 3M OP token and has nothing to show for ? 3M token as an incentive ? They need to show data, usage metric, on chain activities and user retention and even after I would suggest them break it into 500K batches, submit a proposal with 500K, use it, show some result and apply again, like an agile environment.

1000 unique traders across all products, >200 txns per day

And this is not enough, just my opinion

It not like I dont see things that needs to be changed in this proposal to be vaguely considered. I will simply not entertain those point as we have other Proposal to focus, new Phase 1 proposals.

My opinion still remains the same, they have 900K, use it, once its distributed, submit a new proposal with data showing how fund was used, does it have some positive impact on the chain and I will fully support it.

I wont support this and still NO from my side, if this going to voting.

1 Like

I think the following addresses all the counter-arguments to the proposal so far:

  1. They’re asking for 2 million in the proposal, not 3 million. Comments regarding size of phase 0 grants (not that protocols had any influence on it) should be made in the associated phase 0 thread so as to not convolute this thread.
  2. No protocol has anything to show for efficacy of Phase 0 grants - they haven’t been distributed yet, so there’s no point in debating that further. If so, we should shut down all Phase 1 applications over the next many months.
  3. There’s a chicken-and-egg issue associated with looking at current users to determine grant size. The whole point of the grant is to draw in new users, so I suggest we look at the existing and upcoming products and why they may or may not bring in newcomers to Optimism. That is essentially what Padzank’s write-up is concerned with.
  4. Ultimately, the question we need to ask ourselves is whether we believe Thales’ products and their associated OP incentives will draw in substantial users to Optimism. I think there’s a good case to be made for that being the case in light of the novelty of the products in a crypto context (e.g. sports market with Chainlink feeds).
4 Likes

I am counting both, so approx 3M, as its still not distributed.

they haven’t been distributed yet, so there’s no point in debating that further. If so, we should shut down all Phase 1 applications over the next many months.

yes, you are right. As long as their last fund is still left(may be they can submit when 20% is left to give them some time prepare a proposal ), they should not be allowed to submit a new proposal.

There’s a chicken-and-egg issue associated with looking at current users to determine grant size.

No, its not. Its pretty simple and clear from where I see this.

o I suggest we look at the existing and upcoming products and why they may or may not bring in newcomers to Optimism

Thanks you for mentioning this as I am looking and that why I am against it. This proposal has huge room for improvement.

Ultimately, the question we need to ask ourselves is whether we believe Thales’ products and their associated OP incentives will draw in substantial users to Optimism

Like I said, I am willing to discuss this but not now. Not in current scenario.

Anyway, proposal is already live, its clear where I will vote. I am looking forward to learning from comments of other users and delegates.

I agree projects should not be proposing additional funds until the original funds have been spent.

I have noticed some delegators posting proposals and I don’t think this should be allowed or if it is allowed they should withdraw from taking part in the vote.

1 Like

Thank you supporting my view.

They will, this a common practice, if a delegate has any relationship with a proposal, they will abstain themselves from voting.

I’ll add additional details when I have more time, but wanted to say I FULLY SUPPORT this. Thales is rolling out new features and products that are truly industry firsts and I see massive potential here not just for Thales but the entire Optimism eco. Everything is and has been based on Optimism and this plan to use Phase 0 as well as Phase 1 OP rewards would be extremely valuable to accelerate adoption. In the very near term Thales will be releasing products such as Overtime that will very likely change a multi-billion dollar industry, but will require mainstream adoption of blockchain to reach the truly stratospheric levels, but can be done. This will result in unprecedented volume flowing in to Optimism. Thales/Exotic Markets/Overtime are just the base layer and just getting going. These are some of the most innovative and well planned protocols out there. Plus, the most decentralized and in-line with the ethos of Optimism. I am in full support and expect this to be a major catalyst for Optimism.

4 Likes

Take advantage of the World Cup to shine!

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This is a strong proposal, but I’ll be voting No until we see some results from the Phase 0 funding. Definitely hope to vote for Thales in the upcoming phases, and hope to see normies onboarded to Optimism in the interim.

4 Likes

Voted: No.

There is already a thread related to this, So I dont think I need to write the same thing again.

Will be happy to support this in next phase.

Requesting your view and opinion on this :