Will you join us for a 100% community-driven experiment? Especially if you are just a user who thinks you don’t have time for understanding OP governance or it’s not worth it to participate, this is your DAO. You don’t need to spend any more time than you can or are motivated to spend. Just support this post or claim the first token distribution it’s a positive contribution. This will pretend to be a fair DAO, perhaps the fairest DAO ever if you join us.
As we were discussing on this thread: https://gov.optimism.io/t/babel-optimism-brainstorming-for-language-barrier-inclusion A decentralized global community must emerge from global participation and most of the crypto projects have been biased toward using English for communication. Sure we need a common language to communicate, but that is a handicap for the great majority of the world’s population. Even having a proficient level it’s exhausting to use a language you don’t master. How can something be decentralized without all that people participating? OP collective needs the indispensable inputs of culturally diverse views.
The same things happen for normies/no-coiners, people with a digital divide, neurodiversity, etc. We need to count on them for participating in what is supposed to change the world. **We need everyone to share their strengths, values and their Optimism, and love for humanity **
Another important strength of our community is to reduce the possibility of collusion: forming a group including diverse people and settings some rules for claiming the first tokens can probably guarantee the lack of hidden interests of the group. Also, the middleman is one of the main obstacles for society to receive the whole benefit of a service or social goods. People tend to think in in-group and out-group terms, and they are easy targets for their own fellow citizens, that’s why there is a point for an Optimism citizenship, where the information flows properly. A diverse group can control in a better way for bad actors. Since the projects are created from scratch (no matter how tiny would be) we could implement experimental methods to assure cleanness.
Our goal is to start educating and experimenting with bottom-up governance models that empower the community. To welcome new users and bring fresh perspectives to the ecosystem. To foster real-world use cases that bring long-lasting benefits. This particular DAO is not about DeFi, but DeFi people who master crypto tools are very welcome to help us with this difficult task. We are applying for a GRANT as a part of this project:
Road map:
Get OP community feedback and hope a large amount of diverse OP users member wants to participate. Set up some parameters and establish a deadline to claim the token. If anyone does not fulfill any criteria for the first token distribution, they are invited to our official forums to participate with their feedback and in the next distribution they could get some of the 49% destinate to newcomers on the terms we determined.
After sharing a private questionary (with the claimers so we can start with the experiment). A list of ideas to explore will be created, and lateral thinking and similar methods will be used to start working on it. A Key point is that everyone can express themselves in their own language or in English using a translator or trying their best without being judged. On the contrary, community will support to extract the value of any idea.
Our Governance Token: 5000 Babel token to be minted soon on Optimism.
-If we finally get the OP grant, we will hold a 5000 OP treasure* backing every single Babel and delegated to the delegator chosen by Babel. Babel won’t have any liquidity to be on an exchange, but any holder could burn it and ask for the if someone wants to leave the DAO.
-If we don’t get the grant. In my case, I will donate at least the Airdrop I received for voting in a DAO on Ethereum (271.83 OP). And if is there good reception some more I bought because I believe in the vision and I have seen some delegates and volunteers here working hard and sharing those values too. So, I know there are more fresh people willing to join this.
**Token distribution will be done in different phases and the exact criteria will be public after any distribution: (with a council chosen judge approval, we won’t get 5k OP for doing nothing woth **
-51% for OP community members: being a discord or discourse member (before the time I publish this post) or being token holders or providing OP liquidity, participating on governance etc.
-49% for inviting people outside the OP community chosen in a game theoretical way that provide a guarantee of value and using some mechanism to probably avoid collusion (some randomness in the invitations orders and some rules for proposals TBD). Look for diversity. Minimum % for each language community member. Newcomers to OP ecosystem supporting our project with their ideas, etc.
We may be needing some privacy for strategic reason, avoiding liking of information etc. We’ll figure it out and we’ll share everything at due time or just a trusted agent could check the content.
The idea from Rune’s maker endgame that didn’t occur to us is that, since we need to avoid friction, if is there an important division or conflict about some issue: the working group can split and keep going in parallel with a referee helping to take the best of both approaches to vote. What we do have clear is that we must avoid any friction about politics, religion or even blockchain technology preference
Spread the Word and comment in any language you choose, we are babel now.
In this first iteration is a symbolic quantity so we experiment with DAOS backed by OP in their treasure and therefore contributing to governance or any other needs
** Do not forget this is a social experiment who is going to born in Optimism because we loved the OP collective vision and their working constitution: Working Constitution of the Optimism Collective
Note: How about sybil attacks? Token rewards will be distributed for valuable participation, so if someone is planning on sybil they must participate double for double rewards. Besides that, the rewards are not in the OP token value of the shares, but in the real-world value trapped by frictions, bad agents, third parties, and basically a lack of curated information flowing property.
This is a draft, I need to review it and I hope you help me to improve it. This is not a personal project, I am just the one who was crazy enough to post it. Let’s do it!
Some kind feedback from mozuku on Japanese Discord:
The meaning is not conveyed.
"As I have told you before, please put something into action, not a draft.
It is abstract and does not give a complete picture of your ideas.
You can say whatever you want in writing.
I think the first thing you do is shape the structure, rather than just bringing people in with an idea.
I have no idea who you are or what you are trying to do. Please take action, not just write.
Retroactive public goods are what they say they are. Past performance and Impact are the benefits. "
Thanks for your valuable feedback and your time, I very much appreciate it.
Let me try to kindly respond to your concerns: This is not a personal project, all who participate have the same rights. That’s why it’s still abstract, we need to be as many as possible and start working as peers. It seems complicated, but in practice, it’ll be more simple. Action is already being taken. I’m minting a token, I’ll send it to all OP community fulfilling the first distribution request (all of you on discord and discourse apply) and we can start working on concrete things right away.
Optimism is not only about retroactive public goods.
Quoting the working constitution:
they aim to “the foundation for a fair, democratic model of decentralized governance that’s built to last.”
It is a very difficult problem to solve, we all know the crypto story: A beautiful narrative of freedom and decentralization ending up with people losing money as Fiat pattern repeats. (It’s not easy to change our mindset)
W. Constitution stays later:
“A commitment to experimentation. In its lifetime, the Collective will undertake a series of governance experiments”
We are part of the collective as token holders (no matter how many), so it would be great to experiment ourselves. As the most important part of a democracy, we smallholders (most common users/citizens) have much to say about a governance model, since Thanks for your valuable feedback and your time. Let my try to claryfy the idea:
Optimism is not only about retroactive public goods.
Quoting the working constitution:
“the foundation for a fair, democratic model of decentralized governance that’s built to last.”
It is a very difficult problem to solve, and they stay later:
“A commitment to experimentation. In its lifetime, the Collective will undertake a series of governance experiments”
We are part of the collective token holders (no matter how many), so it would be great to experiment ourselves. As the most important part of democracy: smallholders (common people) have to be aware that we are not in a FIAT world. We must feel with power to participate in a governance model which is becoming more centralized as this is gaining complexity and size. Complex systems are not planned in some Foundation Desk, they emerge from the elements interacting with each other. I’m not here to complete a quest and wait for a pump or a miracle. I’m here to use crypto as it was designed to be used. We don’t need any funds. We have our wallets and we have tools to use them to coordinate. Even though we have the right to fork:
And I truly love this part of the constitution, because is what would happen in a decentralized scenery:
" * Forking. The right to fork and the right to exit are critical to protect individual freedoms. It’s expected and encouraged that if the governance of the Optimism Collective is captured, members of the Collective fork the system and reinstate a new Collective which better serves the people. All of the core software and tooling required to run the Optimism network should be made open source, freely available, and easy to use such that a fork is always a viable alternative.
Usaré el castellano ya que mi capacidad discursiva en inglés es aún limitada, y la idea y la esencia de esta DAO me inspira a unirme y a poner mi granito de arena, en las formas que me sean posible desde mi contexto y ubicación geográfica.
Como toda tecnología requiere proyectos innovadores, creo que la visión que tienen de acercar a las personas a estas nuevas habilidades y recursos es un primer y gran paso, muy necesario para ir haciendo cada vez más pequeñas las brechas entre un mundo y el otro, porque lo ideal sería lograr una globalización justa, humana y ética.
That’s a good suggestion. I have my doubts about how the community will work, but I think it’s a good idea. I hope many people participate together.
If possible, I would like to participate as well.
Great @AryaStarkYou got the meaning of the project and you did great in expressing yourself the way you feel best. What you did with your comment was a great first step. No matter what your location or context is, it accompanies us 10 hours a month or 10 minutes. Every little drop of optimism adds up.
Haha, it is a right and OP knew it and talked about it. Bitcoin and Ethereum were forked too. The point is that the new users don’t get the system, they need to be trained.
Then we live in a simulation. It is an option too haha.
@DrChaos.eth I love your support. And you made me remind of something:
If such communities have any chance to succeed, we may stay as neutral as possible at least until gaining some size and having technics for non-confrontational iterations. Rune from Maker gave us great ideas, but we have many others by authors like Eduard De Bono, etc.
Please stay loving and optimistic so this can be true someday.
The proposal is too abstract and it is hard to find the solutions that this initiative offers.
However, in general terms the Babel proposal is about involving new people, especially non-English speakers in the OP governance.
This does not imply active participation of new people in the OP governance. That’s what delegates are for, and that’s how delegation works.
and at the same time, contradictory
is not a new solution, in the OP community it is not forbidden, anyone can use a translator to communicate, or can communicate in his own language without being judged.
It is not clear the function and necessity of the BABEL token in this initiative, finally this token has only one purpose, to provide more support for this proposal, as you mentioned in the proposal:
And of course, distributing the BABEL token yourself, for which users must fill out a form, is not an open process.
Conclusion: The OP community can delegate to whomever they want, choose a delegate based on their own interests, and they can choose a delegate based on their spoken language, and anyone who wants to be a delegate can simply submit a commitment, no need to create another DAO to be a delegate in Token House.
Sure, it is hard to find the solutions, that’s why the proposal is abstract and in a very early stage. It takes time and more people to join.
They are not participating. Aren’t they? Do you read any feedback? Do you know of the Nudge concept? There are no people participating in governance feedback, we are proposing a way (perhaps it won’t work, but what’s the problem in trying?)
OP governance or even delegating can’t be a full-time job or even a part-time job. With this we are inviting anyone to join and they may find a particular area of interest where share some value. People will participate more if they don’t need to spend 3 weeks to get the governance process and can join to some m-dao or project of their interest. And about active participation in the OP governance by retail people, I think previous and much more expensive projects didn’t bring much.
Delegates are doing a great job, but people won’t spend time enough getting to know them. Information is not going bottom up, if anyone doesn’t see this it’s because we spend much time educating about tech, economics, etc. and there is an important lack of philosophers, game theoreticians, behavioral scientists, etc.
It’s not. It’s about inclusion
Who holds worthless tokens from the beginning doesn’t matter. If the distribution process is not transparent and fair enough they’ll be useless. If you read the grant proposal, it says clearly that OP tokens will be held by someone named by the council. I know people usually ask for 100,000 in grants to develop some smart contracts first.
That wasn’t the purpose of this particular project. But I don’t see the problem anyway.
Thanks for your post. I am willing to spend as much time as needed if you are interested. Do you have any comments or question about my response to you above?
I am fully familiar with the process:
The foundation is doing its job, delegators, and committee too. But our job it’s to do the part they can’t, an essential one if we believe in this project.
How are we going to be different from any other L2 or L1? Technology race is on its way and it won’t matter if there is no social structure, and that’s for us to do (as well as for other communities sharing our values and they’d be more than welcome and needed here).
Thanks for your interest.
For people who want to participate in OP Governance but don’t have time, they can delegate OP tokens, that’s what delegates are for.
How does mDAO help here?
It matters, because in the beginning all tokens are owned by you, they are distributed by you, at your own choice, and the criteria are set by you. Since there is no community around the initiative you promote, you personally will control the treasury address, and you are the Council, BABEL tokens are useless.
The only beneficiary in this proposal is you, there is no need for BABEL or OP tokens to educate and involve the community in governance.
It is a problem, because so far it creates the impression that you create the visibility of supporting these proposals to receive the grant from the GF and delegate these tokens to yourself, here are only personal interests, it is not about the DAO.
Most people are in many ways. This requires time and knowledge and the proposal is a way to promote inclusion and reduce bias. It is very clearly explained.
By giving a way for information to scale.
Of course, matters, again be my guess in monitoring the whole process
Have you even read from the beginning? I am only giving up my time for free. Can you say the same? It’s not a critique, you do a great job, but don’t make false accusations.
“Wow, you got lucky. I don’t see this clearly, this quest leads to an airdrop. I would think more about voting, delegating and participating in a more natural form. But who knows? Are you at Arbitrum nova? It seems they want to copy OP”
Sure, please join as a peer. We are going to work as a DAO from the beginning. Just the #1 iteration will be depending more on me, and after that, the community will judge. (and I won’t be on the top holders, I am so happy with the response of the international community).
And? Really? Nothing to hide. I talked too much and I was interacting with the french community many months ago. People on channels usually talk about governance, not airdrop or quest. Please, stop it.
About arbitrum it seems obvious that they are going to use Reddit as a community builder (they have a form for subreddits to participate in a karma system on nova). This is a powerful way to gain users, but again: Reddit: Super biased by language place. Anyway if we don’t understand Arbitrum etc. are not enemies we don’t get anything of this.
. A thought, thou… If everything becomes digital, how can I exit from digital?