i agree that context helps tbh - thereās not a lot of precedent for what youāre proposing so some extra justification is probably needed one way or another
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I am an Optimism delegate [Delegate Commitments - #65 by mastermojo ] with sufficient voting power, and I believe this proposal is ready to move to a vote
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one cannot deny how useful is DefiLlama to Defi Community. and commitment of @0xngmi is astonishing.
so yes for sureā¦
2 Likes
In support of funding the team of DeFiLlama for their great work and support of Optimism.
As mentioned by others, the current proposal seems more suitable for retroactive funding once this is launched. As you add more and more DeFi services & tools, thereās definitely also room to submit another proposal that focuses more on spurring growth of Llama and the Op ecosystem 
Regarding the amounts requested @0xngmi can you provide $ values? Since itās salaries that you need covered and since (as far as I understand they have already been paid ā you should know exact amounts)?
The other grants requested OP was in $ amounts which later got converted to OP amounts at the time of the proposal.
As for the RPGF versus using this grant round I donāt know. It depends on what the OP foundation wants to do. If itās okay with it and itās up to community then it could just go to the commitee for the next voting round and also go to a vote.
But indeed the point of a grant is to incentivize something being built/done and not to reward for past work. That said I love the work you did/are doing and RPGF is still not open so we canāt even offer you an alternative but just tell you to wait if the proposal was to be rejected for this reason.
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Small remark but Iād like to clarify that we will use this money to continue improving defillama and build products, itās not purely retroactive funding where we are paid for previous costs. Instead, we are asking for money to keep improving defillama and launch new products that benefit everyone.
The way I see it, the only difference against other grants is that we cannot provide something like a āintegrate optimismā milestone since we have already integrated Optimism into every aspect of our products, and providing milestones for new products wouldnāt be optimal since we keep a very close loop on products and keep our product lifecycle extremely flexible (so we donāt have a clear outline of everything weāll be building over the coming months).
Because of how vague that is I thought the best way to just provide a reasoning for expenses based on previous grants (also helps since OP is quite volatile while amounts previously awarded are fixed).
This is important because retroactive funding carries a very different set of expectations (you are getting paid for previous work, so you can do whatever you want with the money received), whereas here we are instead committing to work on more crypto analytics and spend all money building the product. I can understand where the confusion is coming from since in this proposal Iām heavy leveraging our previous work to argue for receiving this funding, but its actually like āLook at all weāve built, please fund us to build all these new cool thingsā rather than āWeāve built all this, please pay us retroactivelyā.
Regarding RPGF, for us it would be much better if we could proceed to voting, and in case the community rejects it weāll just accept it and wait for RPGF rounds.
DefiLlama is a bastion of the defi space. You guys rock 
Voted against - This is hard to do because Defi Lama has done incredible things for the space. However, I do not believe this proposal is aligned with the purpose of the governance fund (see below). I understand that this is open to interpretation but these types of proposals are better suited for the retroactive public goods funding program imo. Thank you to the Defi Lama team and I hope to see you in another grant pipeline.
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1. Presentation
We are an officially recognized Tooling Governance Committee, responsible for assessing proposals related to tooling and infrastructure (wallets, bridges etc.).
2- About the project
Defillama is a dashboard and analytics website that has supported Optimism data analytics since shortly after launch.
Llamapay is a payment streaming project that can be used to stream salaries and other payments. Itās been live in Optimism since end of April 2022.
3- About the following
The proposal was published on September 27th asking for 170k OP tokens for Defillama and for 130k OP tokens for Llamapay.
As a Tooling committee, the project was recently catalogued as āToolingā in the Grant category, and so weāve taken on the responsibility of issuing a recommendation.
4- About the proposal valuation
- Added value (good to bad): good. Defillama is a staple of analytics in the space and has been active on optimism since the start. Regarding llamapay we are not sure but the comparison to superfluid is fair.
- Impact or expected usage (high to low): medium. Defillama is definitely being used a lot in optimism/mainnet so the expected usage is definitely high. Llamapay usage in optimism low~ish but according to the TVL itās sufficiently high compared to other solutions.
- Current Status [Development stage/Open Source?] (early to ready): ready. Both defillama and llamapay are ready.
- Expenditure plan and distribution (appropriate to inappropriate): reasonable. Both amounts are reasonable. We would have loved to see a more detailed expenditure report since the funds are supposed to cover work already done. Also it would have been much better if the proposal had been split in 2 different proposals since it concerns 2 different projects to give the committee judge each project in its own right.
- Amount requested (high to low): medium. Again without a detailed expenses report itās literally impossible to judge the amount here. The comparison to other projects that received OP tokens and paid salaries is reasonable but since there is no more details given we canāt determine if the amount is high or low.
5. KPIs and impact tracking
Defillama dashboard is already being used by people and projects in optimism.
For Llamapay the current TVL is around $61k(https://defillama.com/protocol/llamapay), 79 active streams and 39 payers with active streams (data provided by 0xngmi via DMs). To track progress and see if the grant was succesful in helping the project it would be nice to compare current and future metrics.
6- FINAL RECOMMENDATION: Yes
Both projects are already deployed and working on optimism. So this grant would not be to get something to optimism but to reward for work already done. There was suggestions in the forums to ask them to wait until RPGF is ready and apply there but we believe that since RPGF is not ready yet that should not be considered as an option now.
Both projects follow the opensource ethos, have no VC backing and are fully community based and open. We need more projects like this in the field, not less. So we should do everything we can to encourage people to build this way. For those reasons the final recommendation is YES.
3 Likes
Going against committee recommendation.
Like mentioned earlier, this is better suited for RPGF
There was suggestions in the forums to ask them to wait until RPGF is ready and apply there but we believe that since RPGF is not ready yet that should not be considered as an option now.
Committee recommendation and rational are clear but I believe projects are already deployed and can continue to do the good work until citizen house is ready. Also, assuming in next 3-4 months citizen house will be ready, DefiLamma will have a better suited proposal for RPGF.
Changed my vote to abstain based on the information provided in the community call.
Can you maybe share an one sentence description of that information?
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Sorry, I should have elaborated. I initially voted against both Messari and Defi Llama proposals because I believe they are not aligned with the purpose of the governance fund and would be better suited for the retroactive public goods funding program or a different grant pipeline. On the community call today, the Foundation clarified that the governance fund is the correct pipeline for these types of grants. I changed my vote from against to abstain since my initial reasons for voting against were invalid. However, I donāt feel strongly enough to support these types of proposals where 100% of funds are allocated to internal operations so I am voting to abstain.
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Iām going with the committee recommendation - I believe this proposal is more relevant to UX & onboarding users and will have an immediate impact on growing Optimism, than the other RPGF candidates (which I do agree itās more suited towards).
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I am voting for this project, following also the tooling committee recommendation of which I am a member.
I am a strong proponent of opensource and following the decentralization ethos and doing things right.
DefiLlama is doing all these things right and have done a lot for the optimism ecosystem. Software is not free and salaries are not paid with promises of an undisclosed RPGF amount that will come later.
Hope more funds go towards such projects in the future.
@0xngmi can you provide a Telegram handle or other contact method so the Optimism team can get in touch about paying out this grant! Feel free to comment on this thread, DM, or email palash@optimism.io