I appreciate the reduction in budget and I’m happy to put this to a vote.
I am an Optimism delegate with sufficient voting power and I believe this proposal is ready to move to a vote.
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Thank you @spop and @jackanorak and @katie !!
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I’m not blocking out any proposals, I’m one delegate giving my opinions and feedback as much as I can and some proposals violate grant guidelines or aren’t initiatives that I personally see bringing value. There are hundreds of other delegates and we should all be allowed to share our opinions at any point in the process.
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Agree entirely with @katie . The purpose of this stage is in fact to have a filter and try to decrease burden for the actual votes. This will entail refusing to advance to a vote those proposals that appear out of scope or otherwise not up to a certain standard. This one happens imo to meet the standard.
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This proposal is now [FINAL]. This post thread includes:
- The proposal
- 4 delegate endorsements (interspersed among the below-referenced posts)
- Delegate comments asking about the timeline and DAOstar’s response with details
- Subsequent delegate comments questioning the proposal’s usefulness followed by DAOstar’s response clarifying both misunderstandings of the project and explaining its viability
- Further delegate comments suggested the budget may be too high, which was addressed by DAOstar reducing the requested amount by 25% from 90K OP 67,500 OP.
Thank you.
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Katie, I ESPECIALLY am not directing this at you! You are doing an incredible job, you have supported more proposals than almost anyone, and have provided A LOT of constructive feedback! I am having fun bickering with you, about all sorts of fun little things, like if the foundation should have made that 1 OP vote, but I think here I was a little lazy with my intents. and I don’t think you will disagree with me much.
The stinginess is not directed at anyone in particular, its more of some feedback on the process. I applaud the delegates that are giving feedback, but a weird second order effect is that some of the delegates that are reading the feedback become scared to support the proposal, because they don’t have the context and they don’t have the bandwidth to dive in and understand.
In general I think we, as Optimism, made getting to the voting stage very hard on the proposers and delegates, as humans, during this very short round. I’m connected to a lot of teams here and I felt their stress. Every comment was watched with anticipation and well, it was nerve wrecking. Considering this is all a big experiment, the results are ok, but like Lefteris said in one of the posts “We created committees for a reason”
What I saw tho was unreasonable stress and sleepless nights from a lot of proposers during this round. Messaging every delegate they could and then delegates being scared to support proposals that had some back and forth, as they didn’t have time to read them Optimism is doing this process better than most DAOs out there… but no DAO does this process very well.
There is something really challenging about forum post culture in DAOs, mixed with deadlines and busy people.
I think there was a lot of unnecessary stress for delegates and projects alike, but looking at the results now, with so many delegates giving last minute votes, the results are much better than I thought!
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Hello delegates,
Thank you again for advancing DAOstar’s proposal on governance standards for the Optimism ecosystem to the voting phase.
@amanwithwings from DAOstar has created a short video to help you understand the proposal during this final voting phase. The video contains the following:
- Aman’s brief introduction (0-1:17)
- Jake from DAODAO on DAOstar’s governance standards proposal (1:18-3:07)
- Ivan from Aragon on DAOstar’s governance standards proposal (3:08-3:26)
- Aman’s summary and conclusion (3:27-5:13)
Please advance directly to Aman’s summary and conclusion if you do not want to watch the whole video!
Thank you.
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It sounds like DAOstar does impactful work and standardization would be useful but I couldn’t get to a yes since the amount requested ($82k at today’s price) still seems too high for me.
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I’m a bit torn here. I think standardization is important. I think Optimism could both benefit from this, as well as contribute to a greater public good of DAO standardization. However, I think something like this should really be digested fully by the collective, with a full description of why the DAOStar Standard is the way to go. Like I think the Collective should start by asking “Do we want a DAO Standard?” and then ask “How should we implement/subscribe to a DAO standard?” This is a conversation to involve the entire community, as opposed to being 1 of 30 mission proposals where the community’s intention is very divided.
I think this would be a better approach from yall’s perspective as well. Right now, your critical milestone depends on Optimism adopting this standard. And Optimism might decide this is not the right time for them, or that it should be a community decision anyways. Then, if that happens, the critical milestone would not be reached, and I (as well as other delegates I’m sure), would call for a clawback.
In short, I think standardizing Optimism to fit a specific DAO standard is best suitable as a standalone discussion, as opposed to a Mission Proposal. I would encourage that route.
For this reason, leaning towards Against as a rep of Blockchain@USC
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Josh here, ED at Metagov and standards lead at DAOstar.
I think we all want standards. Not only is it a positive public good, there are some pretty clear costs to NOT having ecosystem standards: DAOs have a harder time getting discovered, new frameworks get zero visibility, tooling has to go back to web2 strategies for growth hacking versus just shipping great code on chain, and no DAO to DAO coordination.
So the only question is, how do we build a standard that is useful to everyone? How do we cultivate an environment that can capture the input from each builder, DAO, and tool? The purpose of this grant is not about creating a standard and asking everyone to adopt it but to speak with everyone, including Optimism, in order to build standards (note the plural!) that are useful for all.
It’s not just about getting Optimism a seat at the table where we set standards, it’s about ensuring there’s a table at all.
This is a conversation to involve the entire community
@chaselb absolutely, but what’s the community? Is it just OP token holders? Suppose Optimism ships its own standard. Then Polygon ships its own, Cosmos ships its own, Solana ships its own (we’re in touch with all of them). Then we’re in a shittier place than when we started.
The money we’re asking is to cat herd a giant group of industry actors, many of whom are ALSO decentralized orgs. We’re like the community managers of community managers, but we also go into a ton of communities (80+ at last count!) to have conversations like this, then we have to wrangle you guys to ship an actual standard (which if specced well is like 70% of the task of shipping an actual piece of software). Plus all the other stuff we do. It’s not easy. That’s the rationale for the price.
If a better collaborative environment exists where all the DAOs, tools, builders, and researchers are engaged, we would gladly join. But in its absence, we’re trying to drive this conversation forward. We hope that you will see the importance of keeping the lights on and consider supporting it.
Regarding the budget, @linda, we understand your concern. But the budget extends beyond development. It encapsulates gathering diverse perspectives, understanding pain points, fostering consensus on vital topics, negotiating with regulators for DAO benefits… and a lot of actual building. Success here is not just about a few DAOs adopting the standard but about nurturing a community-led initiative. Happy to chat more, just DM me.
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He Josh. I agree with everything you say here. I just don’t think the Mission is the right format for this particular effort. Part of your critical milestone is actually getting Optimism to be a part of this standard. Which, in my opinion, should be an entirely separate proposal for the Optimism Collective, where the entire community can be more involved in the discussion and understand the ramifications, as opposed to being 1 of 30 Mission Proposals where the community’s attention is divided. I also think this standardization effort should be on a more flexible timeline than is allowed by the Mission Process.
That being said, in your critical milestone is:
So, if you manage to convince the Optimism community as well as the communities of “3 large DAOs” before the end of September (the end of Season 4), then I think this grant is deserved. However, the approval of this mission should not be considered approval by the Optimism community to adhere to the EIP-4824 standard. You all should still engage the community (which I understand is your plan) and convince the community (and probably most of all the Foundation) that the EIP-4824 standard is the right move for the Optimism collective. Which, like mentioned above, will probably have to take the format of a standalone proposal in addition to this Mission Proposal. If you don’t manage to do this (and thus are unable to have Optimism publish a DAO URI), then your grant is subject to a clawback (which I will argue for if/when the time comes). So I don’t mind approving this Mission, with that in mind.
^ of course, all of this assumes that this Mission will find the approval it needs (I don’t think I have enough voting power to take you all over the quorum).
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Thanks @chaselb for your support! And yeah, @amanwithwings and I are definitely going to be engaging the community in these standards.
In fact… if interested, you (and anyone else on this thread) might think about joining the roundtable / a working group for standards 
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Hi @david , @yoavw , @ethernaut , @mjs , @ClipperDEX , @cryptotesters , @hop-protocol , @pseudotheos & @tongnk , I understand that this is last minute, but could you guys have a look at our proposal above?
We are so close to getting approved–short of only 10k votes. If this mission makes sense, please consider voting for us. Voting ends in 30 minutes 
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Hey, on our governance call, we reviewed the DAOStar platform and the communities it contains. We believe that operating OptimismDAO in line with the DAO standards you specified would ensure transparency as well. Managing DAOs to a certain standard can have both positive and negative outcomes. After all, the management standards of a large community DAO cannot be similar to those of a small DAO. We believe that these standards will be implemented in the future to benefit Optimist DAO. This proposal within the topic of governance accessibility, in our opinion, deserved the vote. Best of luck
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Hi @Dr.Suga!
As Season 4 draws to a close this week, we’re so excited to see how you’ve executed on your Mission! Please post an update for the community here outlining the milestones you’ve met this Thursday (9/20) by 19:00 GMT. Please include links to any final work products as we’ll create a final roundup linking to all Mission deliverables.
We also encourage you to sign-up for RetroPGF Round 3. You’ll be able to describe the impact of your Mission when you sign-up: RetroPGF Round 3 Applications Are Open
Thanks again for being part of this experiment and helping us build the Collective 
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Thanks for the ping, @lavande!
This mission has been a great success. Here are the updates on what we’ve achieved::
Improvements to technical infrastructure:
-
We’ve deployed the EIP-4824 registration factory on Optimism Goerli and Mainnet, as well as subgraphs to index EIP-4824 registrations on these chains. A full list of deployments can be found here: DAOstar Contract Registry - Google Docs
-
The DAOstar explore page has been configured to automatically pick up and display EIP-4824 registrations on Optimism: DAOstar
-
We’ve made significant improvements to the daoURI creation flow, integrating with both Snapshot and Boardroom, to automatically generate subURIs given a DAO address. DAOs on Optimism, by only entering their ENS name (for Snapshot), can generate a proposalsURI and membersURI through these integrations. They may add their website, governance doc, contract list, etc. to this and generate a daoURI in minutes. The daoURIs generated are automatically stored on IPFS.
We are currently working on a comprehensive membership management system as well as on improvements to the search and filter of registration instances.
Adoption:
To execute this mission, we’ve presented EIP-4824 at more than 15 DAOs in the Optimism ecosystem. While 3 have already decided to adopt, more DAOs, including dHedge, Lyra, Stargate, have expressed interest in learning more and reconsidering once there is more momentum behind the standard (which we have now). Outcomes from our outreach:
ShapeShift: The proposal to adopt EIP-4824 passed unanimously at ShapeShift DAO: Snapshot
Unlock Protocol: The proposal to adopt EIP-4824 passed unanimously at Unlock DAO: Snapshot
LXDAO: LXDAO reached consensus on adopting EIP-4824 and already published their daoURI: DAOstar
Optimism DAO: We’re grateful for the backing received from the Token House to carry out this mission. Substantial conversations has been held with the foundation and key delegates on how to best support the Optimism DAO on their journey to EIP-4824. In this regard, the following proposal was shared to the Foundation: Extend the Optimism DAO with EIP-4824 - Google Docs, which was approved, following which this guide to publishing a daoURI was shared: Extend the Optimism DAO with EIP-4824 - Publishing a daoURI - Google Docs. Additionally, we’ve been encouraged to explore the Optimism Attestation Station as an innovative onboarding route for EIP-4824 in the future.
Due to the evolving nature of Optimism DAO’s governance structure, notably the Citizen’s House and member definitions, the implementation is still in progress. Rest assured, we should be able to support Optimism DAO in publishing a V1.0 of their daoURI soon.
Snapshot X: A notable adoption achievement apart from the DAOs above is Snapshot X. The on-chain governance framework from Snapshot, which supports Optimism, now has native EIP-4824 compliance. Hence, going forward, all Snapshot X spaces will automatically contain a daoURI, making the adoption process for future DAOs easier.
Discussions with DAOs in the Optimism ecosystem have provided us invaluable feedback. The ShapeShift community in particular provided important feedback on how they view the manager role as well as on the decentralized management of daoURIs.
We would like to note that the timeframe required for taking a proposal like this from ideation to consensus, even though it involves no transfer of funds or changes to existing infrastructure, is rather long. Every DAO that decided to adopt had a long feedback window, followed by development efforts from our end to customize their daoURI and finally voting and execution. Hence, we will be continuing this work at full pace, until every DAO and protocol on Optimism can understand and adopt EIP-4824. DAOstar is also committed to improving the amount and state of DAO activity on Optimism.
We have worked closely with the likes of Boardroom, Snapshot and other members of DAOstar One in building the necessary infrastructure for EIP-4824. We’re also grateful for the valuable feedback we’ve received from various DAOs, as well as from individual contributors such as @kaereste and the foundation, represented by @lavande. We thank them for their support and also the Optimism community for entrusting us with this mission! Together, let’s continue to build a more interoperable DAO ecosystem on Optimism and beyond!
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Thanks for the update @amanwithwings! Please not that all Missions will be able to showcase their work tomorrow during a dedicated Mission demo day on September 28th, at 16:00 GMT on the Discord mainstage!
Demo Day - Mission Proposal Edition September 28th 2023 - 4pm UTC
Show off your Season 4 Mission Proposal accomplishments and milestones:
- Each mission proposal will get 2 minutes to present
- Summarize your mission proposal
- List your milestones and the results of those milestones
Apply here - (Discord):
Include:
Presenter Discord Handle → must be in the Optimism Discord
Link to your mission proposal
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Alright. So, coming back to this, I have looked at the update provided and it does seem as though the critical mile has not been reached. Although 3 major DAOs within Optimism’s ecosystem have agreed to publish DAO URI’s, only one of them have actually deployed their daoURI. Further, the Optimism Collective has yet to publish a daoURI. Thus, by the caveat of my support (detailed in the post I am replying to), I am considering requesting a grant clawback, if that option is still available. @lavande can you provide more clarity on how the grant clawback process works?
I do recognize you all have made significant progress towards your goal, and because of this, there’s a chance I don’t attempt to pursue this action. However, strictly speaking, I should, and I think it is important to enforce clawbacks in the event milestones aren’t reached, so that for future mission proposals a realistic assessment of capabilities is encouraged and realized.
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@chaselb, thank you for being on top of things.
Regarding the deployment of DAO URIs, I want to clarify that another DAO, ShapeShift, has indeed published their daoURI on September 27th, 2023, as you can see from the transaction here, titled summonRegistration. The third DAO, Unlock Protocol, is currently voting on an onchain proposal to execute the same. Considering that the Snapshot there passed unanimously and that the core team has been extremely supportive of the standard, there is a high chance their daoURI is live before the end of the month.
Another notable achievement is the adoption of EIP-4824 by Snapshot. This means that future DAOs using Snapshot X on Optimism, potentially 100s or 1000s, will automatically comply with the standard. This is significant.
I acknowledge that our initial milestones may have been tightly defined given the time frame for execution and how much time in reality a proposal takes to go from ideation to voting to execution in DAOs. However, with a ton of effort over the last few months, we are actually quite close to meeting all of them.
Furthermore, we have built a good indexing framework for Optimism, worked with multiple DAO Tools to build infrastructure and engaged with a high percentage of DAOs with token holders or governance on Optimism. This doc has a better breakdown of the conversations we’ve had with different DAOs. Note that after each constructive feedback, we also went back to make improvements to the EIP-4824 infrastructure. For example, we integrated with Snapshot and Boardroom to create better subURIs; ensured the decentralized storage of daoURIs; deployed an improved version of EIP-4824 factory on Optimism, etc. We remain committed to improving the interoperability and discoverability of the DAO ecosystem on Optimism.
While I understand the need for strict evaluation of grant proposals, I would encourage you and other delegates to consider the significant progress and positive impact we have achieved before considering a grant clawback.
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