[DRAFT] [GF: Phase 1] nice2win

looks like a good project for me, I’m an OP hodler.
I’d love to see such project that keeps attract capitals to Optimism chain, that will help the growth a lot

@OPUser

For the opensource part, I may not have understood the original question correctly. All that is related to the “gambling” aspect of the platform is on our smart contract thus opensource and verifiable. However, the website (javascript, css, html…) itself is not opensource meaning the code to run it is not public. After all, the website acts as a UI to the smart contract. You don’t need to use the webapp to play our games, you could interact with the smart contract itself!

The main reason you would want to play on our casino is that it’s provably fair which means that any bet outcome can be independently verified and that the operator or other players have no means of tampering with the result. We may be one of the only fair, transparent, non-custodian, and immutable gambling platform out there, thanks to web3 technology :wink:

As for the audits, we are already using smart contract code that has been audited in the past, I invite you to check our Medium page for more info (the link is in the original post)

Thanks for the questions!!!

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@OPtop

Thank you for your review!

Thanks for the reply.

I apologize I thought your user count was less than that. I am satisfied with the answers you have provided. Still a bit concerned about the legal issues surrounding a gambling platform thou.

Are you planning to keep the OP as OP in your bankroll or exchange it for ETH?

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You can also change the below answer to “yes” as it is the NFT and Gaming Committee you called out as applicable to in the Grant category field.

Is this proposal applicable to a specific committee? No

@Butterbum

Hi again,

Very nice reading you again. Let me try to reassure you about the legal issues.

First of all, please refer to this article 2019 Taiwanese article Blockcast article 2019 which has the English title of: Gaming games occupy the Dapp market but are still in a “legal gray area”

Here’s a quote from the article:

Question 3: Is writing a Dapp game program likely to constitute the crime of “providing a gambling venue/gathering a crowd to gamble” in Article 268 of the Criminal Law?

Li Canyu: At present, Taiwan’s judicial practice has not yet made a definite judgment on this issue

Secondly, the following article describes a judgement in Taiwan stating that gambling is legal if it’s not in public space. Internet is considered personal therefore not making it illegal to gamble on Internet. Ltn News article 2020

Now, just to put some context on the matter, gambling is very popular in Asian countries more so than Western countries which is the reason for such specific articles(rulings) on the matter. Gambling is also more accepted in day-to-day life. About the first article, it is clearly stated that it is not illegal to write a Dapp casino as of today in Taiwan. The second article confirms that online gambling is legal at the moment. None of us are lawyers in the team so take everything with a grain of salt, but just know that Taiwan is friendly to web2 casinos overall and logically would translate to web3 casinos. It is also common knowledge for online casinos in Taiwan to host the casinos in foreign countries which we will do anyways.

Replying to this now:

Are you planning to keep the OP as OP in your bankroll or exchange it for ETH?

We could do either really, depending on the preference of the council. It’s already on our roadmap to support more currencies to gamble with, like OP :slight_smile:. Would swapping for ETH even be possible from the council’s point of view?

Thanks for reading!

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@jrocki.eth

Done thanks!

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Thank you for your reply and addressing some legal concerns. It still leaves me scratching my head as to classifying the internet as a private space.

Concerning the swapping of OP for ETH

Thanks again for all the info.

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@Butterbum Thank you!

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Definitely leaning more to make an OP Bankroll on Optimism as of now btw! Unless I can’t read fine prints, I think it’s the only choice!

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To be included in this voting cycle you would need to get two approvals from delegates per these instructions:

If a proposal does not get two delegates sign off by September 22, 2022 3:00 PM it should be moved back to [Draft] and you can retry in the next cycle!

We like that this proposal does give some co-incentives and we would encourage to submit again in next cycle when there is a bit more user traction

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@jrocki.eth

Yes, let’s see for now if we do get the two delegates. If we don’t, we will definitely be interested to submit again with more momentum on our side in the future!

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I went ahead and changed it back to Draft and added the “not-passed” flair. We’ll give you news soon and update the original post with our advancements when ready.

I don’t think there is an issue with having a gambling platform on Optimism. Someone will build one, but it’s a question whether it is worth providing a 100k grant to a product that attracts a small user base.

Gambling is for a very small user base, and other gaming or NFT projects might be more attractive for a larger user base. Reducing the grant size heavily and amending token distribution might make this a bit more favorable.

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@Bobbay_StableNode

Thanks for the input!

For the 75k OP bankroll part, we originally viewed it as “match our current funds” type of deal since we are nearing 50 ETH. I totally think we can learn a lot from this past cycle for sure, including reducing the grant size and reworking the distribution.

Going back to the OP Bankroll question that we asked above, we have noticed QiDao offers an OP collateral vault: QiDao. This vault basically lets you deposit OP that you can draw MAI from if you stay above 150% collateral ratio.

Would the council agree for nice2win to lock the “bankroll section” of granted OP in this vault to draw MAI then swap it to ETH to add to our current existing ETH bankroll? Of course, we would do so with a very high Collateral to Debt Ratio % to avoid any risk of liquidation.

This seems like a neat idea to us because it would avoid us from selling the OP and would promote ecosystem usage between projects.

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Good question there has been some debate about allowing protocols to borrow against their $OP funding.

@lavande, @OPUser, or @jackanorak might have more insight on this one but I do not believe that practice is expressly prohibited at this point.

Personally, I don’t have an issue with it as long as it is stated in the proposal, backed by sound logic, and is done responsibly

That’s right, there’s currently no explicit guidance on whether to use OP as collateral. It’s a slippery slope, and from my perspective if anything it calls out the need to consider alternative forms of distribution to grantees.

Using OP for a bankroll is kind of tough because the idea is that it’s evergreen and grows, and it’s also initially capital inefficient as a grant due to the need for overcollateralization and liquidation risk.

Tell me this, actually - have you modeled out your expected bankroll growth given different use scenarios (imagine there’s a house edge or some rev generation)? There might be some very interesting possibilities here.

The best thing to do would ofc be to facilitate OP use for the app itself but idk what sort of dev lift that would entail.

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@jrocki.eth Thanks for the link!

@jackanorak

Tell me this, actually - have you modeled out your expected bankroll growth given different use scenarios (imagine there’s a house edge or some rev generation)? There might be some very interesting possibilities here.

The house edge already being 1%, the current plan is to grow the bankroll aggressively, taking no profits, until the bankroll is solid enough to fulfill more type of bets. For example, in the current ETH pool, 100 ETH sounds achievable within the next year if we manage to take off. We don’t have any type of models yet but we are working on some Dune queries to give us some more insight on growth and analytics.

Using OP for a bankroll is kind of tough because the idea is that it’s evergreen and grow

Not only that, but you can’t pay gas with OP. For a simple user experience, ETH makes more sense as our primary crypto of choice to bet with because if you’re going to play 100 games per day, you’ll be charged on the same currency AND you’ll be managing your gas spending implicitly. On top of that, OP is likely to be more volatile than ETH in the next years which adds more risk to “simple” users swapping for a set crypto amount to play within let’s say a month, then recharge if needed.

The best thing to do would ofc be to facilitate OP use for the app itself but idk what sort of dev lift that would entail.

I’m not sure I understand the statement fully, however, if you’re talking about betting with OP strictly or any other crypto, it is definitely on the roadmap and is definitely achievable.

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Messed around with Dune Analytics today, go take a look :slight_smile: Dune Analytics: https://dune.com/nice2win/nice2win-web3-casino

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