It is clear that some of us are not supporting this committee and they have raised their concern on this thread which is just fine. Governance is all about listening to different opinion.
From my side, we will not pivot our direction from DeFi, we will listen to everyone’s feedback and will try our best to incorporate those feedback. Feedback and governance is an iterative approach and we believe in that.
I think there is no point in escalating this any further, we wont divert because of your “opinion”.
Its not yet decided that our committee will be final, I think there will be voting on snapshot too, we are showing our interest and willingness to contribute, we are not making rules.
Just because we are part of this committee, its does not mean we will only focus on DeFi, we are here and will jump in and try to contribute where we can, Growing OP Ecosystem does not mean just DEFI, you will see us(well at least I will be there) in other domains too.
I am happy to answer any other question that anyone has.
Also, you may wish to review the first three points of the Code Of Conduct. I’ll quote them, rather than link:
Make a positive impact on the community. As a Collective, we understand that positivity is the driver of healthy growth. Be excellent to one another.
Err on the side of extreme civility. The Governance Forum is a place for constructive feedback about the Optimism Collective. There are lots of places to sling mud, this isn’t one of them.
Keep discussions on-topic. This is a forum for discussion about the Optimism Collective, Optimism, Ethereum and projects within these ecosystems. Unrelated posts may be removed.
The post I am replying to exemplifies disregard of the CoC, and the committee should not be approved if this represents future level of communication. Suggestion: OPUser find an alternative reviewer to ScaleWeb3 in order to maintain support.
I’m sure people reading recognize how everything started and how it evolved. Neverthless It’s only the consequence of having committees… if no one wanted committees this kind of diminishing debate wouldn’t happen.
Diminishing people capacity, expertise, ability to work in a specific committee was completely pointless in the first place. I didn’t need to read all this BS but thanks. Now I know I don’t want to be part of this kind of DAO.
i read through the talk here and i can see where he is coming from on a few point. this is quoted from the team leads bio
Apart from this, I have contributed to two projects on Optimism, I was alpha tester of Lyra platform and the second project is Layer2DAO where I participated at the initial step of their Phase 0 proposal.
Finally, I like my cute bunny pfp. Optimistic Bunnies are the very first NFT project on the OP chain and I do hangout in their discord from time to time
not saying this guy isnt qualified but this isn’t much in the space the wallet activity is bad to. on the other hand i do like scale web3 and minimal gravitas only other issue is the jox guy is on multiple committee
I see absolutely nothing wrong in what I’ve said and appreciate your citing the exact problem, purpose mismatch, I’m helping to address by suggesting what I have.
This group has itself conceded that its value proposition lies not in defi expertise but in active governance, which is applicable and valuable in several verticals. This is brought up repeatedly. I am highly aligned with MinimalGravitas, whose beliefs on climate change, for instance, are in lockstep with my own. I think they are a towering, valuable influence on OP. I’ve looked in this thread and in the delegate commitment section and found not one mention of DeFi in their background. OPUser’s claim to DeFi knowledge was being an alpha tester of Lyra. I’m not saying these people shouldn’t weigh in at all - but where’s the actual argument for being specifically on the DeFi committee?
Rather, members have highlighted backgrounds in gaming (unaddressed vertical), devrel (infrastructure, also unaddressed), and advocacy & education (community, also wide open). I think it’d be great for these members to apply their expertise to proposals in these domains, of which there are already many. This is not a zero-sum situation. Please tell me exactly what is so inflammatory as to invite targeted ad hominem in making such a suggestion.
I am making this same reasonable point repeatedly to increasingly heated, adversarial, in some cases inappropriate responses. I don’t think this has to happen.
Weather its feedback and/or criticism, both can be of positive and negative in nature. We can move towards a common goal of sustainable Gov either by taking everyone with us or by dragging someone down just to put yourself first.
You have already mentioned “argumentum ad nauseam”, apart from that common practice taught in B2B is “substitution heuristic”, same goes with political debate as well, rather than focusing on topic of discussion, they focus on opponent either by repeating the same thing or asking the same question again and again in different form just to divert the focus of discussion.
But its all good, its a nature of DAO Gov, beauty of chaotic co-ordination and it will pass too.
We had a chat in past on committee and you know where I stand on this, it has some cons but now with the committee guideline we all need to put the recommendation in written form which might be a biggest advantage so far as it can help counter biases.
I wrote all this because I think you are an active member of this gov from start and we need your contribution, good thing is that our gov is working on iteration and foundation is serious about it so my request to you would be to consider this statement if you were serious about it. If we mess something up, we can fix it in the next iteration but only with your contribution.
Thanks for sharing this great tweet. Below is the full screenshot. This explains why I’m participating in governance. Why Optimism? See Delegate Committment.
Governance is an iterative process, and progressive decentralization is the right path to take.
That said, it needs to be clear what communities and delegates can decide and what is ultimately decided by core teams. Core teams like Optimism should make most decisions and even have veto rights at this stage. Nonetheless, contributors should have a say over defined parts and be able to meaningfully add value - otherwise I’m sure you’d agree that there are better ways to spend your time.
Ultimate goal should be minimalistic governance for key protocols such as Ethereum & Optimism - that we genuinely like, want to support and strengthen.
I’ll just ignore your passive, aggressive tone though I must say the last week made me reconsider whether I + my companies should even support Optimism from here on out
If you’re standing for a remunerated position you should expect to be questioned on experience and intent; if you can’t handle that in a good natured manner without rage-quitting, governance is perhaps not for you.
The expertise question is fair as we stated in our first comment.
Since then, unfortunately nothing was re: proposal, rather chit chat on he said this or that.
It seems we have different opinions on “rage quitting”, “good natured manner”, “governance”.
Many in crypto still do not understand what community and governance means. Here’s our take:
1000 random people are not “the community”, neither are “only” token holders or Discord members.
Finding 10 quality contributing companies, 50 valuable stakeholders and 100 motivated, smart individuals is something not many projects have ever achieved in crypto.
You need core devs, subject experts, groups that take on tasks (subDAO, metaDAO, xyz). Discussing with random people on the internet may be the job of a community manager in Discord but it is not part of this committee position. Its job is assessing DeFi projects, and we additionally offered helping projects craft the best possible proposals for their own project and Optimism.
Before optimizing for further growth & decentralization to “community”, you need these quality stakeholders. Otherwise, values & goals are lost, while discussing “governance”, “vision”, “price”.
Who are the top 10 DeFi projects / teams that Optimism should onboard?
Who are the top 20 community members so far with input to DeFi?
Which of the DeFi projects (soon-to-be) on Optimism will offer strong, lasting network effects?
Who has demonstrated a reasonable path between (TVL) growth and security?
What are the DeFi projects that make sense on Optimism but not on Ethereum mainnet or a Starkware implementation?
After all, I’ve been part of too many crypto communities to spend my time making anons happy. I prefer thinking about DeFi or here: discussing it in the context of Optimism. Would be happy to hear your thoughts on the posted questions. Cheers
the last week made me reconsider whether I + my companies should even support Optimism from here on out
This is what I would describe as rage-quitting (worse would be making the threat of with no real intent to do so).
Good natured manner would be responding positively to questioning citing your own experience, rather than breaking down why you don’t like a DeFi protocol.
Governance fairly nebulous for OP at this point, but if we consider the formation of committees a foundational element then it is fairly evident resilience is a key attribute for committee members or delegates to possess.
Many in crypto still do not understand what community and governance means
I appreciate your taking the time to explain your take, but it is supercilious language like this that creates an adversarial environment. Let me demonstrate…
Most people exaggerate their experience in the web3 space
Here is the entirety of information on Optimism from blockchain-comparison.com; yes, it is a single line in an AirTable.
The Telegram insights channel has posted 3 times since Oct 2021.
The Twitter has more activity, but has 1500 followers. Most of the content is not organic; it’s simply linked from outside sources. Links to research go to, again, Airtables.
I think it’s important to share some real evidence of experience and a little more transparency, you mention your companies; are you the sole owner? Where are they incorporated? Are they regulated? Under which umbrella? Are those entities the delegate, or you personally? Would remuneration flow to those companies, or to you personally?
this is an actual embarrassment. imagine thinking i even felt a need to say something not from my own account. I thought I’d made my case pretty clearly and saw it confirmed repeatedly.
But since I’m here, I will add:
Discussing with random people on the internet may be the job of a community manager in Discord but it is not part of this committee position.
This group’s activity on the forums is literally the primary thing it points to in saying it’s best suited to be the first look on defi proposals
This will be my last message here. I don’t see much more need to litigate this
I want to hop in to the fray a bit here. I think some of the points that the Velo team (@jackanorak@alexcutlerdoteth) is raising are completely valid.
These proposals involve some technical level of understanding of tokenomics, incentives, and the legitimacy of the protocol itself. I disagree that you need to work for a DeFi protocol in order to do this, but I DO think that this is one criteria that a committee should be judged on.
Trying to discredit these points by trashing Velo seems counterproductive.
Any point of view is valid, good questions and points of view make governance take shape. Beyond the tone of voice of these crosswords, it helps improve governance.
In my opinion @jackanorak point is completely valid, as well as @MinimalGravitas point at the beginning with the “conflict of interest” issue of having all committee participants working on different protocols that are involved in Optimism.
From my point of view I see these conversations as constructive and completely valid, it’s part of decentralization.
